You guys give me some feedback on some ideas for critical questions to be asked of those who are on the radar for elected general executive positions (Committee/Council) at the next General Assembly. Travis and I have approached some of these guys already and they, for the most part, are amenable with complying and offering a response.
The goal is to compile the responses and publish them unedited. Limiting the number of questions to five to provide some reasonable parameter to the length of the resulting compilation.
At present there is essentially no platform for any dissemination of this type of information other than the informal network of state campmeetings. The reality in those settings is that you gain only subliminal glimpses (at best) on opinions held by/from a very small sampling of those potential leaders.
I look forward to your suggestions…seriously. I am aware of the satirical opportunity that I have just lobbed before you…but this really is a sincere effort. Thanks.
Filed under: church of god |
Missional Church of God 
This is an interesting idea. I’m just listing some questions here not because I have a beef with anyone in particular. But these are questions that I’m grappling with in my own ministry.
1. What is his vision for the denomination?
— What will the COG look like in the year, let’s just say, 2015?
— What kind of church will become?
— What steps will we take to get there?
2. What are his personal core values? And how have these been demonstrated in his ministry?
— What do you stand for? Why?
— What brings you suffering? Why?
— What makes you weep and wail? Why?
— What are you discontented about? Why?
— What keeps you awake at night? Why?
— Just what is it that you really care about? Why?
3. What is your assessment of the denomination?
— What opportunities do we have as a denomination?
— What are our strengths, weaknesses?
— What threatens us as a denomination?
4. I believe that the local church is the hope of the Church of God? How will you enable the pastors/members of the denomination to fulfill its mission and reach a shared vision for the future?
— How will you foster collaboration that gives a broad sense of “ownership”?
— How do we strengthen the local churches and its leaders?
5. How will you motivate the church in such a way that we it can overcome resistance (from both within and without)? How do we promote a healthy team spirit within the denomination? Some may call this ‘reinforcing corporate identity.
— On purpose, I’m not giving any leading questions on approaches or methods.
Ditto on Tom R’s questions, especially the vision and assessment questions, (its difficult to promotie a schizophrenic agenda which seems to perpetuate a false perception of the denom.)
In addition I would like to ask how they intend on stewarding the COG resources…our stewardship will prove our identity as either an institution or as a movement. I know this takes the entire denom to properly address, but it needs to be addressed first of all in our leaders.
Hello Gentlemen,
I was searching wordpress for a bit of technical help and stumbled across your blog. Wow. Very eye opening.
I am now 54 years of age. I was saved at the age of eighteen. At that time I was a drug abusing, sexually immoral reprobate. Thanks to our Lord Jesus Christ I was saved from certain damnation. I’ve since had many different church affiliations, from pentecostal to missionary alliance and baptist.
Through the years, the average person sitting in the pews of many of these churches and listening to what is being said week after week you may not think too much is out of place. But, I have often had a sense of some sort of disconnect with what I saw and heard in church with what I read in the bible and experienced personally with church leaders in general. There was always something that I found disturbing at some level and often couldn’t quite put my finger on it. I think I have now discovered what it has been all along.
I could not even discern that your blog was about Christianity (and really it is not … it is about religious organization) until I was well into reading a large number of the posts. I’ve looked at the premise of your blog and I’ve scoured the posts to this blog and I see a leadership that is about as far away from our Christian heritage as extreme Islam is from accepting Jesus Christ as Messiah. You men and women should be ashamed of yourselves. I heard virtually no mention of our Lord and saviour, Jesus Christ and seeking Him and His guidance in any of this. I see a bunch of men making plans and setting lofty goals and streamlining organizations, etc. with virtually no mention of Jesus Christ in your exchanges.
This is a far cry from the days of old when every paragraph between Christians, whether in leadership or not, was peppered with praise for our saviour and encouragement to seek His leading in all of our endeavours. And these endeavours had little or nothing to do with your focus … organizational structure, or where we’ll be by the year 2015, or the age of the church leaders, pastors and ministers, or finding a culturally acceptable mode of church structure. This is Churchianity at it’s finest. What ever happened to the goals that Jesus set out for us?
As one commenter on the blog said, “we have called Jesus irrelevant by deciding we value our bureaucracy more than we value our mission”. How right he was.
Another suggestion posed by one goes as follows, “Five questions to ask potential COG leaders”. I read through his suggestions and not one of these questions had to do with Jesus’ great commission to the church.
I even read your ABOUT statement:
“MissionalCOG.com is a collaborative effort on the part of several mission-focused Church of God ministers writing about the mission of Jesus and how it intersects with practice and polity of the Church of God. The aim is to share thoughts and ideas and facilitate dialogue among mission-consumed COG constituents and to bring about practical change – an aggressive, unfettered focus on the mission of Jesus.”
Without all the rest of the blog clarifying things, this ABOUT may stand and make sense, but the rest of the entries are there and it makes it clear that the intersect mentioned above is exactly that … an intersect … not hand in hand in the same direction as the Lord Jesus, but an intersect at such an “obtuse” angle that it defies the Great Commission.
I clicked on each of your links under TOP POSTS and did searches on the entire threads for the words Lord, Jesus, and Christ and here is what I found.
In the complete threads of your 10 “TOP” POSTS, The word Jesus occurs in only four … the word Lord occurs in only 2 … the word Christ occurs in only 2 … and four of the TOP POSTS have no mention of any of the above. The search result “Text Not Found” occurred 22 times. I didn’t follow your other posts, as I suspect it won’t be a great deal different. May God in Heaven help mankind if this crock of nonsense is what we call church leadership today. Get yourselves back to the simplicity of the gospel and the direction of the Great Commission of Jesus Christ, and save people from this evil and corrupt society we live in and lead them to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Very perturbed brother in Christ,
Ron Haley
Sweet!
Well Ron, you’re posting like your hair’s on fire…thanks for raging against the machine.
Clarification, most of us are CoG ministers desperately trying to collaborate about how we can revitalize our movement, which has found itself off-task of the missional focus that launched it into existence in the first place. Since we are literally spread around the world we converge here to do some of that. I can understand that the title and the content could seem to lack some congruence to one who ‘stumbled’ into this conversation. If we are successful in seeing this missional revitalization perhaps we will find ourselves posting on here about stuff that more directly reflects our mission and our love for our Lord. Until then we will continue to give our best shot, whatever that is worth, at holding together what might otherwise be a dying institution, so that we might NOT be able to echo you in saying, “I’ve since had many different church affiliations, from pentecostal to missionary alliance and baptist.”
A ‘Feeling Misunderstood’ Brother in Christ,
Jonathan Stone
Greetings in the name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Grace and peace to you my brethren for we have hope and life in Him who was dead and is now alive.
I wished to comment on the post made earlier by Brother Travis, yet the flaming words from our Brother Ron have distracted me from this. Two things I have for you, yeah even three.
1 – Verily, I say unto you, Brother Ron is right when he says that we do not write and speak about the Way in the way early Christians wrote and spoke. But perhaps our Lord would have us speak in a way that we understand.
2 – Yeah I say, maybe the Lord understands this blog to be a place for open communication among the brethren united in a common purpose. Again yeah, the Lord knows that while we do not all always agree we are bonded in the mission of our King to spread His Kingdom.
3 – What then? Shall we all fall to repentance because of a poster not from among us who speaks to us in judgment? May it never be!
Now to Him who is able to keep us from raging against total strangers, may He receive glory and honor and may He receive laughter and not grief because of this thread.
Let the Church of our risen Savior, Jesus the Christ say, “amen.”
One of the hardest things to do is to operate a “Christian site” that both reaches out to those who are lost and discusses the internal issues that the church needs to discuss if it plans to be effective in winning those who are lost. I know; I’ve been at this for 10 1/2 years, and I’m still not completely satisfied with the result.
For what it’s worth, my own “About” page is
http://www.vulcanhammer.org/?page_id=2
I might add that I do have two Gospel presentations on the site, in case you’d like to link your various church/ministry sites to them. The first is
http://www.vulcanhammer.org/gospel/
Two COG ministries link to this: Lay Ministries (obviously, since I’m the webmaster) and Jon Stone’s mother’s site (Women’s Ministries.)
The second is for Muslims:
http://www.vulcanhammer.org/unusual/mtd/
This is an attempt to un-hijack this thread.
I like Tom’s questions #1 and #3
I might like to hear specifically about the future and vision.
In particular I would like to know about their thoughts on measuring effectiveness of struggling churches (what is his dashboard) and what he plans to do with those churches.
For instance will he simply encourage those pastors and overseers to “stay the course” “dig a little deeper” and “beat the bushes” or will he actually advocate pruning these churches and/or possibly replanting?
How does the next Presiding Bishop propose to navigate the vast diversity (generational, stylistic, cultural etc) in the Church of God? Will he be proactive to address and unite these or simply hope that a good service at campmeeting will fix things up?
Scratching head…..Wow! (concerning the hijacked thread)
It would blow all of us away if we could somehow add up all the ministry years represented on this blog. I’m sure it would show we have exalted the name of Jesus over and over again.
In fact we still do day by day. It just kind of blows me away that a person who doesn’t know us jumps in the game and makes a judgment that is so far from the truth it smells of hurt and pain and displacement.
When I think of the 13 plus years I walked the streets of San Francisco among the homeless speaking of Jesus everyday, the words of Ron really causes me to ask the question…Does he really know who he is talking to?
Ron, I know it’s easy to take a site that is trying to bring awareness to leadership changes that need to be made in order to return to the simplicity of the Gospel and slam it from the sidelines but maybe you should take the time to find out about the men and women of God on this site.
If you did, you would find that they lay their lives down everyday for the love of Jesus and share His love everyday with a lost and dying world. In other words, we don’t count our Christianity by how many time we use the name Jesus or any other words that seem to prove we are Christian. We are in the harvest fields winning men and women to Christ by our words, actions and deeds. I trust you are doing the same my brother.
Peace Out
New here, but not new to all of this…
I’ll not comment on Ron, other than that I have found that when accusations are made it is usually the result of some hurt or hinderance in the accuser’s life. This gives us focus for prayer.
The question reminds me of the famous (or infamous) inverted pyramid of a few years ago. The image always seemed a little unstable to me. I don’t know if I have 5 questions, but I would begin with these thoughts:
It seems like the “machine” exits just to maintain the machine. The organizational structure and polity of our church is sound, and even lends itself to integrated, and therefore farther reaching, ministry. A small congregation can be a part of something bigger than itself. However, it is as if the headquarters main job is to stay the headquarters. Some clarification on what is actually the need for “headquarters” would be in order.
How do we get more local? There are times when an existing church needs to be shut down with a new start replacing the old. There are other times when a turnaround can be accomplished (although harder than a new plant, I believe) and resource and stablity for leadership can be given. How can the general church resource the local church better?
What do you see as innovations that can come from the general church? Television shows, movies, cartoons, etc. that are produced by the church and can impact in a more far-reaching way. (This one came after watching the Lutheran Church’s cheezy claymation Davey and Goliath.)
Bob
Great thoughts Bob. I love the ELC’s “Davey & Goliath” even though it’s cheesy enough to spread on crackers! I too have questions about innovations, as well as alternate revenue streams that could be created. It’s rediculous that we literally collect money and then just spend it (and often spend even more then comes in). Jesus had a whole lot to say about how we should be stewarding our money.
Anyway, I think we are scared of experimenting with innovations. The fear is rooted in our control issues, as well as the ‘pretty face’ we like to put on. In other words, we’re afraid to risk someone screwing up in some way, as if that is too high a price to pay for aggressively pursuing the mission of Christ. ALSO, we’re afraid that innovations will cost money and bring no returns. Certainly innovations rarely bring instant returns, but the longterm returns on investing in creating the space for innovators is sky-high. I hope that 50-60 years from now people are laughing at cheesy, dated innovations those crazy CoGers created, which were effective and creative in their time, and brough monetary returns at that.
So, I guess I’m saying I’m with you on that one! 🙂
Maybe someone could do a claymation of General Assembly.
It would be fun to watch the Executive Committee in clay figurines.
LOL!!!
That’s funny!
Tom,
My days have required my full attention of late, so I have been somewhat preoccupied lately. Without a lot of contemplation, here’s my starting list.
1. What is your specific plan (steps outlined) to move us from an institution to a movement of God? No pat answers. e.g., let the HS guide us.
2. Do you have a budget available for viewing that reveals your emphases for ministry, is true to the spirit of the Minutes, brings the states back in line with the Minutes (e.g., EHM), embraces a cut in the TOT, and curtails the burgeoning bureaucracy, and will it be distributed to the credentialed ministers and active congregations?
3. What are your goals for the next two years and the next four years, if you are elected/re-elected to the Committee and how do these change if you are elected to be the PB?
4. How do you plan to navigate through (and hopefully change) “the system” to accomplish your goals, keeping in mind that several PBs have stated that the system is too large and powerful to make effective changes?
5. What value can you personally add to the COG, in terms of integrity, spirituality, discipleship, leadership, and change?
Keith
#2 should have annually at the end.
Keith
No on has mentioned the backsliders who are struggling to get back to God. However, they have found that the worship and seeking of God is different than the God they backslide from. Mom and Dad’s God some how has changed….the church has changed for them when they come back thus there is a great deal of confusion and mistrust. Know what to believe and why believe it is a struggle. Which T.V. preacher are they going to follow and read his/her books to help get back on the right track and living some kind of consistent christian theology. These backsliders are not only lost from God they are lost in the Church. So where do they turn to for the truth. Is it the latest famous, charismatic and stylish T.V. preacher or is it from some pastor who is out of touch with the lives of most backsliders trying to get back to God?
Ray,
Thanks for leaving some great thoughts and for popping in here…hope you make it a habit.
Tom,
How about an update on how the discussion has (or not) helped formulate the questions you would ask, why you would ask them, and when (or if) you intend to do so.
Keith
Keith,
– The following are close to being the ones…I think they embody the “spirit” of what Tom Rosson, you and others have suggested. The last one is still uncertain (#5)…and then, I would like to add a #6 as shown below.
1. What do you see as greatest opportunity for the COG now that will affect the next decade?
2. What do you see as the greatest challenge for the COG presently?
3. What is your opinion on the “Tithe of Tithe” reduction?
4. In light of the fact that for the first time in the history of the COG (2006 to present) there more churches closing than opening in the U.S., what would you do to reverse this trend?
5. Do you feel the present expressions of financial disclosure and accountability in the COG are adequate? (International General Executive, World Missions, and subordinate departments)
6. What do you want written on your grave stone?
As I stated question #5 is still uncertain
– The questions need to be focused so as to not allow for “run on” answers that would require editing. I am trying to avoid any editing if possible. There is consideration of perhaps limiting the length of each response to let’s say between seventy five words and one hundred words. For instance, the length of this segment (these five sentences) is approximately eighty words in length. We could perhaps provide a section on the internet version that would allow for extended comments.
– Limited personal information would be of value such as:
Age
Present ministry position
Number of years in pastoral ministry
Leadership positions held in the COG and tenure
Logistics:
– Plans are to mail and email the questions within the next 21 days…
– The publishing date will be 21 days after the email/mail is first sent
– Hope to publish them not only on the web but in printed format
– The responses will be listed either in the order in which they were received (time/date) or perhaps in alphabetical order
The next question is who to send it to.
This will be a MissionalCOG initiative.
It must not be “political” or biased in anyway in order to preserve an objective “informational” value.
We will obviously include the current Executive Committee and the current Executive Council. After that where do you draw the line? (That’s 23 people by itself)
Every state overseer?
Every department head?
Every assistant department head?
Every pastor?
Everyone and anyone?
That is the next task…and will be addressed in a separate posting. However, if the document/report becomes so lengthy that the sheer volume is overwhelming I am concerned it will substantially reduce “readability.”
Recently I received an incredible email from a person in an international leadership position who observed: One of the greatest problems we have in terms of leadership selection in the COG is “knowability.” This aspect of the process is very vague. We really know very little about those we vote for and choose – in terms of specific leadership giftings, administration skills, or vision.
I hope this initiative provides some help in that regard.
This question has probably already been covered in previous responses, but here goes:
What would you do to restore the confidence of the general assembly in the leadership of the CoG specifically in the areas of transparency, accountability, and integrity?
These are definite areas of concern with other CoG ministers that I talk to.
Everyone seems to be talking about A&B, I want to enject C, it is great to be asking these fiive very important questions, However, its far greater to reach back to our original mission and that is simply to reach our local community as well as the world around us for Christ.
The missional church is not absent from the COG at all. Just pick up one of our puple books …not red or blue but purple (Declaration of Faith) our goals, practical commitments, spiritual disiplines are “all” present. Could it be, that we the church, are becoming familiar with them through new age writers such as Walter Bruggerman or perhaps Stanley Harwaus?
Its true we do need to mesure and quantify, our denomenation. If we don’t God will. Conversly, ask the five questions, But don’t weap when you get the answers, rather take action.
Murice
I have been very pleased with the movement in the last several years to equip local churches with tools and resourses for ministry. My question to our next leaders would be this: Will you continue and even expand the current activities aimed at strengthening small churches, or will you focus on new plants, and leave current small and struggeling churches to their own devices.
I believe that church planting is at the core of reaching the world for Christ, however we must keep all of our churches healthy and safe. Dare I say it, this will include having spiritual, political, and financial recources available to struggeling churches and pastors.
And now, sorry guys, back to Ron.
I pastor a small (under 50) church that is working hard at impacting the Kingdom of God, we are ministering in our community, evangelizing at every opportunity, and actively inniciating some of those oppoutunities, but as Pastor, I have to opperate as a good steward of what God has placed under my leadership. Part of that stewardship is balancing how much $$$ is spent on winning souls and how much is spent on keeping an 85 year old building safe and functional. I need the CoG leadership to continue to step up and help me and other churches that are in the same position as mine, this requires disucssion about things other than the thousands of hours, miles, prayers, and tears we all devote to winning souls into the Kingdom of God.
Thanks
John