Prophetic Message to the Church of God
Edit 5/12: Due to a formal request from a denominational leader, the original YouTube video has been removed by Matt Boyd. The video can now be found here.
The video should be seen in full. To watch all three in order, see the bottom of this post. But, you should not fail to see the embedded video, which is Part 2 (below):
Dr. Rickie Moore (BA Lee College, MA/PhD Vanderbilt University) is the Department of Theology Chair at Lee University and has been a professor at the Church of God Theological Seminary since 1982. Along with Drs. Steve Land and Christopher Thomas, he is a founding editor of the Journal of Pentecostal Theology.
He gave this prophetic message to the Church of God in 1996 during Brenda Taylor’s funeral at North Cleveland Church of God, the oldest continuing Pentecostal Church in America. In the audience and on the stage you will see members of the Executive Committee and many leaders in the denomination.
After it was given, it fell to the ground. I picked it up and kept it. I kept the message and treasured it for 12 long years until the Spirit of the Lord impressed upon me that it was time to run with this message. My prayer is that we and our current leaders, have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the church.
Filed under: church of god, emerging church, leadership, missional church
MY GOD!!!!!!! FORGIVE ME!!!! my heart is crushed. my breath is taken away. my soul is in the hands of an angry God. have mercy OHH God. i was one caring for the children and i have ceased your labor. Forgive me Father let my ears hear the rest of your judgement but be merciful to me. i am still your servant use me as you see fit.
WOW! What a sobering, eye-opening, challenging word. This message was more than a surface scan, it went right down to the innermost parts of the COG body! I believe from watching this man’s face as he delivered this word that he was sincere and humble. If ever I’ve heard a prophetic word to the COG this was it! If anyone would like to read it in text goto my website
http://www.mikeburgner.com
I have it there in writing.
THANKS MATT FOR BRINGING THIS TO OUR ATTENTION….
I find it interesting that this prophetic word was delivered at the oldest church in our movement, how significant. I would also like to point out the following observations…
1. Does the COG have the same sickness as the Laodicean Church in Revelation. They saw themselves as healthy, growing, vibrant, FINE! God said they were poor, blilnd, miserable, and naked. The COG brags all the time in our assemblies how great things are, but the truth is our body is sick & dying in part of the body that NURTURES CHILDREN.
2. Have we become like the woman King Solomon faced that was willing to see the baby cut in half rather than admit she was wrong. Have we become so engrossed in feeding ourselves that we neglect our children. I believe this here is speaking of “spiritual children” and the next generation. Are we more interested in keeping our SYSTEMS, STRATEGIES, SCHEDULES, AND SALARIES or nurturing the next generation.
3. A good mother will feed and nurture the child FIRST, even at the expense of her own well being. Like I said recently, “I’ve got a living will and refuse to allow machines to keep me alive at the expense of my children’s inheritance.”
4. Healing or death is the only choice. God can heal our body of this malignancy that attacks the part of us that nurtures our children. If we do not realize we’re sick and dying, and seek God for healing and forgiveness, we will die as a denomination. God is determined to preserve the next generation of the COG…”I will not let them starve. They will live, but you will die.”
Words escape me at this moment. This is so heavy I feel crushed. Thanks for sharing it. I will try to come back later with my thoughts.
I am speechless…how could something so powerful, moving, convicting be left there without any consideration or heeding. I believe with the greatest certainty that this was a word from the Lord…and so I ask, have we ascended to the place where, when God speaks, it has just become resounding noise?
What recourse are we left with? Will we allow God to heal us, or will will turn our face away, deny His power, His justice, and die of this tumor that is rotting us from the inside out?
I know God can heal…but once again, freewill restrains unretsrainable power…
My heart is touched,and I have been feeling this way for some time now.since retireing three years ago we have been searching for a church that is p reaching the word of the Lord.no preaching just reding and wanting people to shout,well they shout but don’t live right when they go out.no instructions from pastor.what are we to do when no one will listen ?
For what its worth, we’re halfway through the day and there have been 500 unique views of MissionalCOG.com today so far. Please take the time to forward these videos or the link to this blog entry to your pastor friends via email. This is an important message that needs to be heard and responded to.
Thanks for sharing, it is thought provoking and powerful! The question is what will we do with it now? I am I not responsible for this now that I have received it?
I asked some of the same questions on actscelerate here:
“Is that word for 1996? Have we seen/are we seeing its fulfillment? Is that word for today?
If I understand Matt’s conversation with Dr. Moore correctly, he shared that he knew that our generation would come looking for that word…he wasn’t surprised.
Also, if my memory serves me correctly, it was in or around 1996 when the COG was ranked by Newsweek as the fastest growing denomination in the US. If that is the case, much of what was said in the video contrasted with our reality in 2008 where our US churches are shrinking in numbers of attendees, receipts, and numbers of churches is startling and would surely seem like a confirmation.
Did we fail to heed the warning? Is it too late? I do believe that there is hope in this message. How do we respond? Where do we start?”
I remember hearing the rumblings of this when I first attended the seminary in ‘96. It is so powerful and relevant for 2008.
I know at that time, Dr. Moore began keeping a journal of sorts which contained things (dreams, words, perspectives etc) given to him by “sons and daughters” of the church mostly from the seminary. There is more to this word of the Lord than simply this message.
I can’t begin to share how much impact his voice has had on an entire generation of students from the seminary. His mentorship as a teacher has been instrumental in my personal life and ministry.
I’m glad to see that this is now being heard … again.
Mike,
I also have that journal you mentioned. You are correct there is much more.
I have never been around a person more humble, or more genuinely gifted prophetically, than Dr. Moore. I count him as one of my spiritual fathers, one of the people who has most shaped my life and ministry.
This is indeed an earth-shattering, heart-rending word. Thank you for making it accessible!
A call to die!
It truly will be the only way to live. When he spoke of a sinner walking down front to die and then finding life I couldn’t help but picture the COG doing the same. I was changed by this message.
It needs to be viewed during the Assembly this year. What’s your thoughts on that?
Rick Moore is a strong force among those who are mentoring our”Mission” students. Another powerful word he gaves was “the least of these” the power of thinking small, again an allusion to the children. I wept as if I might die.
Steve,
I agree with you. It needs to be seen during the assembly. Or they could ask Dr. Moore to speak. I am not sure our current leadership is bold enough to do that.
Last week I sent this video on DVD to Raymond Culpepper with a letter asking him to view the message and pray for God’s direction on how he should respond. I have not heard back yet.
Dr Moore and his ministry is the bridge between the generations. If our leaders will allow him to speak God will bring healing and that new life… if we all repent.
I am, actually, without words. The only thing I question, is why was something this important hidden and not largely spoken of, since 1996.
I think God knows the timing of things better than we. There was quite a stir about this service in ‘96, at least around the seminary. Perhaps this is the time for which it was spoken to be heard by a greater audience. Maybe now there are more people with ears to hear.
this has to be taken personally first. we are the Church of God. we are the nurturers of the children. at this moment throughout our denomination the generation that will be leading our grand children are lost and do not understand our faith in Christ.
the next generation resent condemnation without reason that we lived with most of our church going lives. they want someone to be real and walk with them (nurture them) because no one has cared enough to disciple them. we have done a good job of entertaining them (winterfest and ect) but no true relationship.
the lives of most of this generation consist of at least two blended families (some many more than than that). the “Cleavers” do not exist in our churches anymore. if they do they are few and far between. please do not place all of this “Word” at the feet of leaders in Cleveland. he that has ears let him hear
[...] Matt Boyd’s posting of Rickie Moore’s eulogy of Brenda Taylor in 1996 brings back a lot of memories and provokes a lot of thought. But I must make some explanation first. [...]
Don,
I didn’t know you were raised in Palm Beach. I too was raised in Palm Beach, not the Island but in the county. I worked on Worth Avenue while in high school and was able to experience that culture from the periphery. I too ended up in Cleveland, Tennessee and, as you know, somehow eventually ended up on staff at North Cleveland COG.
Palm Beach Island and Cleveland Tennessee are both alternate realities that divide people into two groups, those who have power and those who do not. In the Old Testament the role, culture and perspective of the prophet is set against that of the king. Not unlike how this prophetic word is set against the way our denomination functions.
I agree that we need servant leadership and we need to stop being so performance oriented but those are only the surface issues that this message addresses. This message strikes at the heart of the power structure of those who suppose that they have true power and have abused their assumed power and the message comes from the one who has true power.
Those who were once the disenfranchised have ascended and now disenfranchise others. Not only that, they have neglected their starving children and have only fed those who, as you have put it so well, have performed well for them. It is in essence an anti-egalitarian system that many ministers in my generation have been crushed and grieved by.
I was once very naïve and expected other Christian leaders in our church to rejoice and strive to encourage each other in the work of the Lord. Why shouldn’t it work that way we are all Spirit filled, walking in God‘s power to live holy lives and win the lost? Then I was threaten by people in authority in our denomination before I ever spoke up. My experiences are nothing compared to what many of my friends have faced at the hands of our leaders. Many have left the denomination and some have left ministry all together. It seems like the Palm Beach… Donald Trump philosophy has been the way many, but not all, have led. The Kingdom of God functions by a separate set of rules. And God will make sure his children are fed even if their spiritual fathers are too busy to feed them.
The answers are found in a change in relationship. If you read the responses to this message on missionalcog and actscelerate you will see how Dr. Moore and this prophecy touches the core of many ministers in my generation. Being a man of the generation of elders he is a bridge between the generations. The Church of God is at a critical crossroads. This is something that is spiritually discerned not merely a deduction made based upon a financial crisis. The healing needed can only occur if both the elders and the children embrace the words of the prophet. This is why I suggested that Dr. Moore should speak at the General Assembly. And truly, my prayer is for the healing of our denomination and that God would turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers.
This word from the prophet Malachi was for then and NOW too:
Malachi 4:4-6
Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel. See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes. He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse.
With all the astute words of endorsement, I agree that these words are haunting, chilling and convicting - but since I wasn’t in the Church of God in 1996 & I didn’t have the same appreciation as others did, I want to pose a question:
Did the current leadership hear this warning and if so why didn’t they adhere to it? It seems that our position should be one of humility, not one of brash offenses.
May the Lord help us at this years General Assembly to begin a new era that is not afraid to set an example as leaders and to allow the Holy Spirit (Not a popular evening agenda) to move in our midst as we witnessed many decades ago. We need a change of heart.
I had heard of this, but never had the opportunity to see this footage before now. Thanks to Matt, Travis and anyone else responsible for making this available. I have again experienced the same feeling I felt when I first heard about this message. It confirms what I have also been seeing and feeling about the COG.
This is also the same feeling I felt that day at the General Assembly in San Antonio in 1994, when Brenda Taylor made that public confession. I’ll never forget it. A minister responded to that with a similar confession on behalf of the ministry. Dr. Vest then called the entire Assembly to a season of prayer.
Seeing this today reminds me of how many times I’ve repented before God, only to go back to “things”….. All I can say is, Lord, help me…..and help us all.
Terry,
Thank you for stopping in and sharing. I hope you keep coming back for more. Would you mind sharing more detail about 1994?
Travis,
(By the way, I pastor here in New Orleans, LA., and have served on the State Council with one Carl Webb…..)
Concerning 1994, I remember just being ordained, and that General Assembly being the first one I could “sit on the main floor” with the other General Council members, and vote on church business. Lamar Vest was the PB, and always did a good job moderating the meetings.
When Brenda Taylor made that confession, it was like God stopped us all in our tracks! And, we all know that’s the way it should be when it’s truly a God-thing.
Around 2000, I was pastoring in Shreveport, and wanted to do such a “confessional” as part of a special Homecoming service. My wife contacted Al Taylor in Cleveland, and he was helpful in sending us Brenda’s book, which had the confession printed in the back.
Our church at the time was observing 60 years of ministry. Needless to say, much “water had accumulated under the bridge”. Also at that service, our Overseer, Bob Moore was there to speak, and so was Owen McManus, who had sued the COG many years earlier while Moore was on the State Council. My Clerk represented the laity, and I the ministry, past and present. There was a great spirit of healing in the service, and I believe it was because of that confessional piece. Later, at our church dinner, Moore and McManus were sitting together, laughing, and having great fellowship!
I’m sorry I can’t help you any more about events in 1994. I hope you don’t mind me sharing about the confessional piece, though. Thanks! Let me know if I can help in any other way.
Travis, thanks for your interest.
WRITER FROM ANOTHER FORUM:
“It’s just a little weird to hear a guy prophesying to a dying denomination with a casket in front of him is all I’m saying.”
MY RESPONSE:
The nature of the prophetic is such that social propriety and decorum are not primary values. That this word may seem “weird” or even that it was framed dramatically in this most emotionally painful and deeply reflective setting is not inconsistent with either the spirit of history of the prophetic in scripture
WRITER FROM ANOTHER FORUM:
“My concern… with several of the post here is that it seems there are some who are rejoicing in the what may seem to be demise of the Church of God.”
MY RESPONSE:
One of the most uncertain moments and awkward expressions of true love, (as defined in scripture) is to stand in a moment where impending judgment looms… In that moment there is a collision of grief, born of sorrow and a summons to “rejoice in truth.”
As I have written in another thread….I believe the book of Obadiah is a handbook on how not to respond when the judgment of God finally comes. In one instance there be one who celebrates the judgment of God and Seizes the moment to reinforce their own agenda and significance. On the other hand there are those who will be mistakenly judged as “Edomites” (Cf. Obadiah) simply because they are rejoicing in the fact that truth has prevailed.
In John 8:32 Jesus says that the test (and evidence) of truth is freedom. As I have written (and will continue) the “spirit” of freedom is certainly not the predominating atmosphere in the Church of God…it is fear. But truth WILL prevail..and the resulting freedom it brings.
If I am inaccurately accused of celebrating the demise of one thing because I rejoice over another (namely, the truth)…so be it.
WRITER FROM ANOTHER FORUM:
“I judge propechies, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, interpretation of tongues, by the scripture; for me if they don’ t line up with scripture they are flesh speaking.
The danger with judging this as a whole prophecy to the Church of God is that IMHO, it has not been fulfilled.
The scripture says
Deut 18:21-22
21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true , that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously.
NIV
Now, how long you wait until it is fulfilled probably depends upon your agenda.”
MY RESPONSE:
1. One might instead ask, “What is the threshold of determination for considering the viability of this prophecy?” With more churches closing than opening in the U.S. and Canada for the first time in the history of the COG…With younger ministers turning in credentials at a historical rate, etc. Is there no cause for alarm and consideration of the feasibility of the prophecy?
2. From a “judgment” standpoint and, as you know noted judging on the basis of scripture consider Jeremiah 23.
3. Someone posted earlier that the weight of the prophecy must stand (and be judged) on its own veracity independent of the character of the individual giving it. While I would agree for the most part…I find it interesting that Jeremiah and Ezekiel both address not only the invalidity of false prophets but disclose the motive of these prophecies as self serving.
Synthesis: Perhaps it may be said that, “The degree to which a prophecy may be perceived as self serving is the same degree to which we may be suspicious of its substance and truth.”
To that extent it could certainly be said that Ricky Moore has nothing whatsoever to gain from this…it would seem to move the prophecy into the circle of greater consideration.
4. “…it has not been fulfilled…how long do you wait…” Certainly we would not be the first to impetuously draw that conclusion.
Ezekiel 12:21-23 (NASB95)
21Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
22“Son of man, what is this proverb you people have concerning the land of Israel, saying, ‘The days are long and every vision fails’?
23“Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “I will make this proverb cease so that they will no longer use it as a proverb in Israel.” But tell them, “The days draw near as well as the fulfillment of every vision.
One thing that I know is that if we give true God-breathed prophecy enough time, it will prove itself. I think the past 12 years has been more than enough time to see that the axe of God is chopping away at our system. The proof is so obvious today that it would be both superfluous and insulting for me to take the time here to share statistics and stories. We can all agree that the distant sound of a chopping axe can be heard by all.
The only questions that I think are yet to be answered are:
1. Are there enough people who hear and understand this reality to make a difference through prayer, intercession, and bold change initiatives? Are there leaders from the top to the bottom who will make bold changes before it is too late?
2. Is it simply too late??? I know it’s not too late for God’s Church, but is it too late for the Church of God?
I pray that in my lifetime I will see the answers to these questions be (in this order) - yes and no.
Before any of the children of this word from the Lord attend the Engage 21 conference we should dedicate some time to fast and pray for God’s will to be done.
We have not because we ask not. So I encourage all to pray for and expect great things from God!
Lord please turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers. May we walk in love and humility before you and each other so we can be one as you and the Father are one. In the Name of Jesus Christ, the strong Son of God I pray, Amen!
Hearing this today was awesome and confirming. Why had we not heard this up to now? How many times must these powerful statements, that do not come the creative talents of men but from the heart of God be squashed? The Church of God needs to die so it can become what God had intended for it be. I work daily with people that are looking for the truth and not the murky mellowness of a yesteryear experience. I am truly humbled to be in the Kingdom of God and to know that God has really saved those that repent and bring us back to a life with Him, on this earth and eternally in heaven. To many people look to the potentialities of men and not to the pureness of God’s Word to our hearts. Thank you to Dr. Rickie Moore for your courage and willingness to speak the prophetic, the direction, and the truth.
Who ever put this out there for us to read: a huge Thank You and many blessings!
Matt and Travis,
Thanks for making the videos available. I believe this is very relevant for today!
“It’s an affliction that is centered in that part of the body that nurtures the children.”
A. What is the affliction that you have seen in the past 12 years grip the church?
B. What part of the body is it that nurtures the children? Is it possible that it is the part of the body that feeds immature organisms which are in development?
“You say the church is healthy, it’s moving, it’s going, but I say the malignancy is growing. The malignancy is growing and the children are starving, but I will not let them stave.”
A. If the Church of God is the mother, who are the children? Who are the offspring? Is it a generation? A demographic? A group of named individuals? Or is it the offspring of the mother?…the ones who need nurturing but who are not receiving nourishment?
B. When I first heard this, I thought Lee University, COGTS, School of Ministry. Then, I thought about what has happened to our fathers…are they missing? Then, I thought about the children, children as in baby churches, immature organisms who are in development and who are starving and who are forced to pay for the Mother’s addiction which is stealing nourishment from the children. Is it possible that the children are new churches and churches that are stunted in their development (50% of our churches in the US have under 50 people yet they support the money/largess addiction in Cleveland)?
I was floored when I heard this message. I had to listen to it many times over. It still nails me when I here this.
May we listen and take heart.
i have been under a great deal of stress over much of what is said in the message. i know in my heart it spoke to me about children left behind by our church. young adults that sat in the pews of our churches until the day they could choose for themselves to attend church or not. the majority choosing not to continue in a faith based on experiences of years ago. the denomination has abandoned them.
i could not care less about who has the biggest house. drives the most expensive car. i do not care how much money they have in the bank or their retirement. i do care however that the youth are leving our churches by the hundreds. entertained but unreached. we no longer teach truth, live truth, or tell the truth. get your heads out of the sand open your eyes. WHAT DO YOU SEE?
I’m not saying this to sound harsh, but in the BIG picture, I mean, REALLY big picture, it doesn’t matter if the COG dies, maintains, or becomes revitalized…
Here’s why….
First, Let me quote my father in law, who is a 3rd generation COG minister, whose grandfather started several COG’s in South Carolina.. He has told me that the COG is a vehicle for him to do ministry. He could still do ministry in an independent church, or in another denomination.
Guys like Marty Baker, Travis, Johnson, Brian Hunter, and countless others are proof as well. If we really witnessed “The fall of Cleveland”, do you really think any of these guys are gonna call it quits? Not a chance. They would find a way to share the gospel and continue on.
So what are we really afraid of here? Are we afraid our institution will fall? An institution is nothing more than the people who make it up. Aside from death or rapture, I don’t see too many of you disappearing into thin air anytime soon.
Are you afraid the COG will become bankrupt? It might be the best thing for it. If you understand bankruptcy laws, you know that it would more than likely force the COG to restructure itself in the ways that we are all crying out for.
So again, if this prophecy is fulfilled, praise God for it. I don’t see it as a bad thing. Because the Word is timeless, and God will continue to raise up leaders to share it.
The COG is just a vehicle in which to share the gospel. There will always be some sort of vehicle to do it.
I think I’m going to share this on my blog as well..
[...] his current piece is on What is a prophet? He’s brought up an intriguing question, one that’s challenging people here in the Church of God regarding its own future. Frankly, until about a year or two ago I hadn’t given the subject much thought, but I [...]
I can tell you, “That word is being fulfilled to THE MARK as the Church of God relates to Canada. Canada has gone through more than 1 year of conferences, forums, National Assembly and multiple National Board meetings with members of the International Executive Committee to re-model the leadership of Church of God in Canada”. There are many “financial cuts”, added preasure on churches and politicing to save “SALARIES”, “POSITIONS” and “SCHEDULES” (AGENDAS).
It is hard to believe how this word has been kept so “hidden”.
Harry,
It’s funny that in the last comment on this thread as of May 6th, you would say:
It is hard to believe how this word has been kept so “hidden”.
Apparently, it was unhidden for a season as the video appears to have been removed from YouTube. Why has it been removed? Who would want it gone?
I’m not entirely surprised at this result. YouTube can be a very unstable platform.
Some of you know that I host the More Than Dreams video series. This was booted off of YouTube, probably by Muslims who didn’t like the content.
Most of the free hosting systems (blogs, YouTube, RapidShare, etc.) are very “controversy adverse” and will pull stuff first and ask questions later (if they get around to asking questions at all.)
[...] Prophecy Reposted Posted on May 10, 2008 by travjohnson As you may know from following this, this, this, and this, the prophecy given by Dr. Rickie Moore at North Cleveland was removed due to [...]